Censorship on Triumphrat.net

[Hedge]

Bruce I got a PM to my question from Wombat and I have to tell you, contrary to what others think, he seems like a decent enough guy. I have had no run in with anyone on the RAT except Monte, who he and I have personally straightened out our differences through personal emails to each other and have since become true friends. I have had several brushes with Shawn, the owner of the RAT but he is the owner and its his sandbox so he actually has the right to run it anyway he fucking pleases - and I accept that. If I don't like it I can take my resentful ass elsewhere and won't be missed more than a day or so before I'm forgotten. I have never had a run in with any other moderator that I'm aware of.

Like I said before, when a thread gets edited, removed or just plain fucked around with - you really don't have any idea who is responsible for it. I realized this when Monte took all that heat and bit his lip and didn't even say it wasn't me! The guy was new, if he was unsure of something he would request a judgement call from those who have been moderating for a long long time and you know what they do? They probably take one look at the thread that is in question and immediately do the work themselves and get back to newbies like Monte and mentor him.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm for free speech like we do here but we decided amongst ourselves in the beginning of this Forum that we would not do RAT bashing. There are several reasons for this, but the most important one is - we are bigger than that child like shit! If you feel you need to address certain issues over there with specific moderators PM them and give them your email address and ask them to email you and then you will be on the outside of the forum and term your correspondence in any way, shape or form! Doing it here and on BA is counterproductive for our goals in my eyes.

Lastly - here is the first PM Wombat sent me for inquiring about your banning.

---Quote (Originally by Hedge)---
OK - so why did Bruce get banned from the RAT for this thread? :confused:
---End Quote---

Here is his reply -

---Quote (Originally by Wombat)---
Firstly, if it was because of the MLK thread, the thread would have been deleted.
Secondly, It had nothing to do with that thread.
Thirdly, if you want to ask a question like that, the open forum is not the place for it.
---End Quote---

You know what Bruce? His 3rd point was spot on and I PM him back and told him that I understand the protocol now about how to address this. I also gave him permission to tell me that this whole matter is none of my Fucking Business and he would be within his right do thus tell me that and Fuck Off - but he didn't! He did reply to me and gave me a very well thought out answer which explains why you got banned.

---Quote (Originally by Wombat)---
Well, for starters it wasn't me that banned him, but I was not far off it.
He had been warned repeatedly about posting stuff of a political nature and I have had to delete a number of his posts recently that did not even come close to complying with the AUP.

Even though the MLK thread is borderline in the direction it could head, it is not political as such and did not and does not deserve deletion.

He did start a thread on BHO that was badmouthing the mods for our 'overly harsh censorship' and wanting to know what other forums were around the net where he could basically say what he wanted.

I deleted that thread but he later re-posted it which another mod deleted.

He then went and re-posted it again in another forum, which obviously pissed off yet another mod and for this he was banned.

I will add that I have never given him and official site infraction, which I feel I was well within my rights to do, but instead sent him a polite PM and asked him to please comply with the AUP.

He strikes me as the sort of bloke who does not want to be told anything and wants his own way and when he does not get it he cries foul. ---End Quote---

So you see Bruce - even though you get to express your thoughts here or on BA or any other forum - they read these and can decide, "Well this guy is just a douchebag and a back stabbing motherfucker so if he wants to do that then go ahead and do that but don't come over to my house afterwards and expect me to serve you up lunch!"

I see their point, and although I don't necessarily agree with the overally Politically Correct environment they run over there, I fully respect it as a private place where I'm a guest. When I'm a guest at someones house I act accordingly or I don't get invited back. So if you don't like it there don't go there. For me, I have learned an awful lot from the RAT. There are many nice people there for the most part. I have gotten to the line a few times myself and have been warned but never banned. each time I have crossed that line I have either edited out my mistake or apologized for it. I have ceased fighting anything or anyone since Jan 01 2008 and I am now winning the war within myself!
Peace Out - John

[bruce19]

Hedge:

FWIW, what I did was post a civil thread asking other posters if there were other Triumph sites that they post to. I don't recall initially saying anything about censorship. Can't tell you for sure because I can't get on the site right now. If he knew anything about me he'd know that I have played by many, many rules in my life. That's how I got am American Legion Citizenship award, was Soldier of the month at Ft. Jackson in April of '69, went to college on a football scholarship and served 13 yrs. as a member of the Mansfield, CT Town Council. Professionally I was an investigator for the State of CT working for a Capt. in the State Police. I think I know about rules. I also know that saying that anything of a political or potentially provocative nature should not be posted, leaves a lot open to interpretation. I guess they got pissed when I posted the question about other sites. Is that political or provocative? No one ever contacted me and said that it was an inappropriate thread. When it disappeared after a couple replies, I posted it again. When it became obvious that someone was fucking with my threads (again, no explanation given) I re-posted. You're damned right I was annoyed. But, then again, I had no idea who pulled it or why. I have a lot more to say but I'll spare you (at least for now) I'm off to Los Vegas where the casino rules are more "liberal" than the Triumphrat rules

[Hedge]

Bruce - If I were a betting man, wait a minute, I am a betting man, I would bet that they banned you for repeatingly re-posting whatever it was that they didn't like, and, bad mouthing them on other forums! There is probably nothing more to it then that so I wouldn't think to much more into it. I would venture that your RAT privileges will be re-instated within a week to 10 days. Like I said earlier, it is kinda like a child's time-out. It happened to my friend MattRat. He's back and is just more cleaver on how he words things and never fails to call to attention any double standards which you will see there are many. But remember, once again, this is a private site owned by one guy who has different people moderating for him - they can do anything they fucking want and if you don't like it you can go elsewhere, it won't hurt their feelings!

Good Luck in Las Vegas my man and may you come home a winner!
John

[modre]

American Legion Citizenship award
Soldier of the month at Ft. Jackson in April of '69
went to college on a football scholarship

somebody stop me...I can feel the monster straining on it's leash...

[JEnfield]

Hey by the way where is Matt haven't seen anything out of him in months. I have figured out how not to get limited at RAT just dont go over there works for me I stop in and read a few post then move on haven't had one run in with anyone since from there.

Jimmy

[Hedge]

Jimmy, Matts around I talk to him every day at work over the IM. It passes the time away. Shoot him a PM - he'll answer you.

[LoVel]

bruce19 I was following your posting the other day when you were banned from the ratnet and I must say you were asking for it. Did you not read the AUP. I almost posted a comment about you trying to get banned.

I think you started three consecutive threads that were either borderline on the AUP or over the line. I know you started a thread on politics. I know you posted a thread that could have headed for racism no matter what your original point was and I can't remember the third one but I am betting it was religion.

No that wasn't it. It must have been the post about what other sites people visited. That in its self was not a problem but following the rest of your postings that day it was as if you were saying, hey everybody, this site sucks, were else can we go.

[bruce19]

Well, FWIW, over the past 10 yrs. I've been a member of two Ducati sites and two Triumph sites and have never run afoul of either until this recent experience with Triumphrat.com and Wombat. Making a post about ML King on the anniversary of his assasination is tantamount to a thread about "racism?" Would that be true if it was a post about JFK on the anniversary of his assasination? And, a post about other Triumph sites is somehow "controversial?" How paranoid are these people? Are they so thin skinned that they have to ban any discussion about the site or their own conduct? If you like that sort of monitoring of your expression of speech then, I guess, Triumphrat.com is the site to be on. I do resent Wombat trying to cast me as a malcontent who can't "play by the rules." He doesn't know me other than a few posts he didn't like. I reluctantly posted a little synopsis of my experiences in life ONLY because he tried to create an untrue picture of me in his response to Hedge. Anyone who has the courage of their conviction does not shrink from discussion about them. They also don't respond to criticism with ad hominem attacks as Wombat did in his response to Hedge. This is a typical dishonest attempt to divert the discussion from the issue to a criticism of the person raising the issues. This is the mark of a coward.

[bruce19]

Bruce - If I were a betting man, wait a minute, I am a betting man, I would bet that they banned you for repeatingly re-posting whatever it was that they didn't like, and, bad mouthing them on other forums! There is probably nothing more to it then that so I wouldn't think to much more into it. I would venture that your RAT privileges will be re-instated within a week to 10 days. Like I said earlier, it is kinda like a child's time-out. It happened to my friend MattRat. He's back and is just more cleaver on how he words things and never fails to call to attention any double standards which you will see there are many. But remember, once again, this is a private site owned by one guy who has different people moderating for him - they can do anything they fucking want and if you don't like it you can go elsewhere, it won't hurt their feelings!

Good Luck in Las Vegas my man and may you come home a winner!
John

John-

FWIW, I bet $50 and "won" $30. Better than I expected. I feel like I left for Vegas a winner and nothing that could happen out there could change that. I don't mean to beat this to death but, since you mentioned it, when I first posted asking if people on Triumphrat.com were on other sites, I don't recall making any statement about Triumphrat.com. When my thread was "disappeared" I was never told why. Honestly, I had no idea what had happened. So, I re-posted it. When it was again deleted I got pissed. So, I posted it in another forum thinking that perhaps Wombat had an "attitude" toward me. Next thing I knew I was banned. Somewhere along this process I did criticize them for censorship, I'm sure. They NEVER told me why they banned me. That is just infantile. I have zero interest in being involved with people like that. They won't miss me and I won't miss them. In the end, it's all about what you want in your life. I'm good with it all with one exception. And, that is Wombat attacking me personally. IMHO, he is a fool who belongs on Triumphrat.com. So, I guess he's good too.

[Kingmoham]

This is a typical dishonest attempt to divert the discussion from the issue to a criticism of the person raising the issues. This is the mark of a coward.

I agree 100%. There are more like him, and many more enablers.

[davidc]

Bruce 19 - This whole thing puzzles and disappoints me. Your initial post about King was a thoughtful expression about well-known person. If anyone took a contoversial tack, it was myself [I do stand by my thoughts on the issue; however, but that is a different matter].

I did not know what had happened - I saw Hedge's post come...and then go. I then saw the posts here. I looked back at some of your posts on the RAT site and saw nothing that resembled controveresy or confrontation. So why the "time out"? I do not blame you for being pissed off, as I would myself. The AUD states that the site is for Triumph motorcyle topics, but hell, I see all sorts of non-related topics. And further, how does someone form a grudge against another through cyberspace? And further yet, the members of a site such as RAT ought to be able to bring pretty much any issues to light because we are joined together by a strong common interest - Triumphs - and likely are interested in what other comrades have to say. After owning Triumphs for many years and meeting many others who have done the same, I have formed an opinion that riders of British bikes are, generally speaking, educated and interesting people with views on things.

To take a heavy hand with moderating really goes against the spirit of the exchange of ideas. Rational adults ought to be able to exchange ideas freely - with manners - and that seems to be the case at RAT: all are mannered.

Well, I just wanted to chime in because of my involvement in the whole issue. I do enjoy RAT because I have gotten such great ideas from the site. But unfairness is unfairness no matter where it occurs.

I guess I'll see you at the Bash. I'll be the guy in the "I Love MLK" tee shirt.

David

[bruce19]

Bruce 19 - This whole thing puzzles and disappoints me. Your initial post about King was a thoughtful expression about well-known person. If anyone took a contoversial tack, it was myself [I do stand by my thoughts on the issue; however, but that is a different matter].

IDavid

I had considered contacting you privately but thought that since I don't know you, you might think it was inappropriate. What I wanted to say was that I appreciated your comments and thought there was a potential for an ongoing discussion of viewpoints. I ws very interested in your perspective since my guess is we are from different generations and might see "history" differently. It really made me consider how events are interpreted by those who were there in the moment and those who see it in a more objective perspective. A good thing to think about, IMHO. Kind of gives you an appreciation of how and why people end up taking different positions on a whole slew of subjects. Also makes you less judgemental about other opinions. These are the things sites like Triumphrat.com never get to experience as a result of their too stringent censorship. If we meet up at the BTB, I'll be the one with a beer in hand for you.

[davidc]

I was going to PM you as well after I found out about this affair. Yes, I recall you speaking of generational gaps. I am 55 and figured by some of your info that you're about 5 or 6 years older - I am hip to what happens now as a result of what happened then. I was as a junior high schooler, and am still, a keen reader and listener of news and politics. Racial issues have been with me nearly my whole life, and growing up in Matawan, NJ, a hitch in the navy, and many jobs of labor have kept me out of a segregated existence.

King, by most measures, was a good guy. I think he was among the vanguard of media darlings who gave good sound bytes and photo ops, but real substance? There I am not in agreement. The US has 4 days out of 365, in which much grinds to a halt to revere certain persons: Jesus, Washington, Lincoln....and King? I do not see him anywhere near the same league as the others. I maintain that his stature is the result of "white guilt", and I further maintain that "white guilt" doesn't exist anyhow.

The darlings of the media always puzzle me, or, rather, how they got that way. Jonas Salk dies and is rewarded with a fourth page paragraph. Mother Teresa had the misfortune of croaking just about when Princess Di did and was relegated to another fourth page paragraph. Spears makes an embarrassing ass of her mega-skank self and camera flashes light the world, and some GI humpin' in the desert gets squat. To paraphrase the paraphrasable Dylan [Bob] if somethin's not right, then its wrong.

Well, that's it, I suppose. Funny, I just read the house rules to my left; the irony certainly is not lost on me. Later.

David

[modre]

King, by most measures, was a good guy. I think he was among the vanguard of media darlings who gave good sound bytes and photo ops, but real substance? ... I maintain that his stature is the result of "white guilt", and I further maintain that "white guilt" doesn't exist anyhow.
David

there's plenty of blame to go around in the slave trade that's been in existance as long as recorded history and likely far before they wrote it down. You have to put MLK in context...they were still lynching uppity niggers after his death...I wouldn't confuse "media darling" with "balls to stand up in the face of certain assassination"...media darlings don't walk out the door knowing they're going to the hospital before the day's out with the full intention of doing it again tomorrow.

I blame the businessmen ship owners who made fortunes, and the plantation owners who took the family out of the black-ish race...and now we just got a bunch of finger pointers and assholes on the street at night with guns trying to be anybody but who they really are.

look at the role models...Flavor Flav and Paris Hilton...this is poor navigating at the helm... these are "media darlings"...worthless piece of shits held up as glamour...and you can be sure it's selling to impressionable minds.

best answer I've heard is build a wall around the cities and throw guns in over the top.

kill the media businessmen shipowners before it morphs again even worse...you don't even need to build a wall...they're in gated communities....throw diseased wanna-be-gangsta carcasses over with a tribuchette...and create real jobs...we need tribuchette builders at $18/hour with benefits and a profit sharing plan...vested in 2 years.

[Hedge]

did he just use the N word? I had to take a quick look at which Forum I was on!